Vietnam Combat Veterans, Ltd.

P.O. Box 1032, Pilot Point, Texas 76258-1032

 10th May, 1996

TO: Distribution List: ALPHA

FILEREF: WALL0510.-96

SUBJ: Further on Suspected Misinformation/Disinformation

REF: Replicas of the Vietnam Veterans Memorial

At 1406 hrs., this date, I contacted Mr. Stan Adler of Lake County VetZ, Tel. #: 847/336-6411, as a follow on to our prior phone conversation (previously reported) in which he had informed me that, "...those guys in San Jose get over twenty thousand dollars for a weekend...", to display their replica. When asked how he knew that, Mr. Adler had stated (with seemingly firm resolve) that he had heard it from a number of sources. When repeatedly pressed for any specific name(s) of any source(s) of that information, he had waffled, side-stepped and settled with stating that the information was second, third (perhaps even fourth) hand information of which he could not be positive, as to its accuracy, and suggested that I contact, "...those guys in San Jose..." to find out what they charged. I had indicated that I would.

 I subsequently contacted Mr. John Devitt, of Vietnam Combat Veterans, Ltd.; Memorial Fund, 408/288-6305 (previously reported), who informed me that they (VCV, Ltd.) currently received a Display Fee, from the sponsors of displays of their replicas, known as The Moving Wall, of $2,650.00 for a standard display period of one week and that the only additional financial obligation between VCV, Ltd. and sponsors is that they provide motel/hotel accommodations and meals for one individual who escorts The Moving Wall. When asked if Mr. Devitt had heard any report(s) of VCV, Ltd. charging exorbitant fees for display of The Moving Wall, he responded that he had, in fact, heard reports to that effect. Mr. Devitt further advised me that, having displayed The Moving Wall since October, 1984, prior to improved scheduling, VCV, Ltd. had (in addition to a $2,500.00 Display Fee, lodging and meals) received a reimbursement for `mileage' to get The Moving Wall from its prior location to each sponsor's town.

 Ensuing conversations with a number of unquestionably reliable Network Sources have validated the following:

• Mr. Devitt is well known in the Vietnam Vet community as being of consistently proven integrity and honesty;
• When contacted and advised that others were stating that VCV, Ltd. collected $20,000 for a weekend display of The Moving Wall, the responses of a number of prior sponsors of The Moving Wall had ranged from incredulity and laughter to significant anger;
• Mr. Adler had advised various Network Sources that, "...those guys in San Jose..." charged varying amounts, ranging up to $26,000 "...for a weekend";
• When asked what he thought about anyone who would say that VCV, Ltd. received $20,000.00 for any display, Mr. Devitt responded that any such person could be nothing other than, "...ridiculously gullible, as stupid as a slack jawed yokel or a f...ing liar!"

 NOTE: Although initiated on 10 May 96 (per FILEREF:), The bulk of the following is being transcribed at 0515 hrs. 17 May 96 from notes made at the time of the phone call. One result of the delay in transcription of the notes is that my memory of exact terminology and/or phrasing, used by Mr. Adler and/or myself during the call, will be less than optimum. As a convention, any items that are annotated in my notes as exact quotes will be placed in Double Quotes, i.e. "...", items which are transcribed exactly from my notes will be placed in Single Quotes, i.e. `...'. Other information, which is provided from my memory, will be presented as plain text. Except as specified in the forgoing, I do not certify that the following is a verbatim reproduction of my conversation with Mr. Adler. I do, however, certify that the context and essence of the conversation are accurately maintained.

 When Mr. Adler answered, I identified myself, reminding him that we had spoken previously, and advised him that I hoped to clarify some of the things we had talked about. I went on to tell him that I had heard (based on information that had been provided by the Heart of Illinois POW/MIA Association) that "The Moving Wall" was to be displayed some time around the 7th to the 9th of June, some where in Illinois and that I was wondering:

1. If that display might be of their replica?
2. If so, where was it being displayed?
3. How to find the display in the town or city where it was to be displayed?

His responses were:

1. Their replica was to be displayed "Friday, Saturday and Sunday" - he thought around the "10th to the 14th", later changing this to the "14th to the 16th".
2. This display was to be in Chicago, in conjunction with the 10th anniversary of the Chicago Welcome Home Parade for Vietnam Veterans.
3. The display was to be in Daley Plaza, in downtown Chicago.

 When I told him that I had a friend who lived in South Chicago near Midway Airport and who might be able to visit their display and advise me of his findings, he told me that it might be more convenient for my friend to visit their display on Memorial Day at the Streamwood, Illinois City Hall.

 When I told him that I had been hearing that several people were apparently experiencing some confusion between their replica and The Moving Wall, he responded as follows:

• "These people call it what they want to. We have no control over that."
• `/SJ=1 deal - we=1/2 scale replica' Which I recall as having been the notes I made when he said something to the effect of: Well, it's like people call all of them The Moving Wall. When I asked what he meant by ...all of them..., he responded with something like: Well, San Jose has one deal...and, uh...we just call ours a half scale replica.

I then told him that I had contacted John Devitt at Vietnam Combat Veterans, Ltd. in San Jose, as he had suggested in our prior phone conversation. I went on to tell him that Mr. Devitt had advised me that VCV, Ltd. received a fee (from sponsors of displays of The Moving Wall) of $2,650.00 plus room and meals for one person for a one week display of The Moving Wall. I went on to ask, "How does that add up to over $20,000.00 for a weekend, like you told me?" He responded, "This is just stuff that people have told us what it has cost." I asked, "And you believe it?" He responded, "Well, they're all reputable people." [NOTE: I recalled at the time that he had said (in our first phone conversation) that he didn't remember who had told him that information - now, he seemed sure that those people (who he couldn't remember) were reputable.]

 I told him, "Well Stan, it's clearly evident to me that someone's lying to someone about this. Will you help me figure out who?" He responded, "I would never give anybody any name. These are just guys who brought back information. It's been different people - it's been years. You know that I can't control what people say about someone else or what they call it." I then asked, "But Stan, it IS your property isn't it?" He replied in the affirmative. I then told him, "You should be able to control how people identify your property to the public and to the media." I then told him the history of SCI's The Wall Experience and how it is regularly identified as such because that is how they call it. They seemed able to maintain some control of how people referred to their property. I noted that perhaps they were more controlled in that they appeared to be operating a commercial venture, aimed at soliciting visitors of The Wall Experience for sales of cemetery plots, pre-paid funeral services, etc., as opposed to just being, "...Vietnam vets, like those guys out in San Jose, who I understand are all REAL Vietnam vets." I then asked, "You guys are REAL Vietnam vets, aren't you?" He responded that he had been in Chu Lai from May `68 to `69 and then corrected himself to specify that he had started his tour in, "...The Widow's Village, between Long Binh and Bien Hoa..." with the Americal Division and in August `68 they had moved up to Chu Lai.

 When I asked if he could think of any way that he might positively influence what people called their property, he responded, "It would only take five minutes to add in our contract - Don't use the name "The Moving Wall". I could do that easy, if it's important to them." I asked, "You mean, if it's important to the guys in San Jose?" He replied in the affirmative and went on to tell me about a 1/10th scale replica made by an outfit called Omni Computers and a two panel representation of The Wall, made by The Franklin Mint.

 When I returned to the subject of use of the name The Moving Wall, he reconfirmed that they had never used the name, that they were now calling theirs, "...just a half scale replica." and that, "...at one point, I think we may have called it The Traveling Wall, but not any more."

 I then told him that he might have had a good idea about adding the clause about not using the name The Moving Wall for their replica, as it just might be important to "the guys in San Jose", as he had suggested it might be, and I gave him John Devitt's phone number at VCV, Ltd. [408/288-6305]. He said that he would phone Mr. Devitt, "...next week when I'm done remodeling my bathroom. This has been the week from hell."

 [NOTE: As of 25^th May, 1997, Mr. Adler has still not contacted Mr. Devitt.]

At that point, I reconfirmed the name of his partner, Jim Gave and suggested that they might both be interested to assist us in determining who the liars were, in this matter. In that context, I told him that we, in VET-NET were always looking for people to help us in exposing liars, Wantabees and cheats in the veterans community. I related to him, the story of [Classified FILEREF: Dirty Rat] and how VET-NET operatives had exposed the individual and how one branch of VET-NET consisted of a number of ex-intelligence operatives and others who had been, or were currently, involved in information gathering activities who, "...get rather serious in seeking the truth about things that we think are sacred. The names of my buddies who died in Viet Nam are sacred to me and anybody telling lies about anything associated with them is important to me - important enough that I won't rest till I find out who the liars are and I am able to expose them as such. If you want to help me do it, I'd appreciate it." He did not respond.

I then encouraged him to, "...contact Mr. Devitt, like you said you would and, till then, I further encourage you to quit telling people that they're charging $20,000.00 for a weekend." He said that he would do both and we said good bye to each other.

 1. One Network Source provided copies of several documents, photographs and other materials associated with the arrangements for and display of the Lake County VetZ structure, examination of same has disclosed the following:

• In photos provided, it was found that the font used for lettering the names on their structure does not even approximate the font used on the Vietnam Veterans Memorial in Washington, D.C. or on The Moving Wall, which are identical to each other (The Moving Wall's name images having been created from the same negatives which were used to engrave The Wall in D.C.); and a rather significant number of names are improperly positioned on their panels;
• A photocopy of a `tri-fold' brochure which bears the name LAKE COUNTY VetZ (copies available to be provided, on request) which has been recreated (within limits, in text mode, not to scale, etc.) and is available for on line viewing: 

2. An additional conversation between Mr. Adler and me has occurred and will be reported separately.

3. Additional conversations between Mr. Devitt and me have occurred and will be reported separately.

4. Attached is a reproduced (within limits) copy of a letter from Mr. Adler which is reported (with a Confidence Factor exceeding .95) to have accompanied the tri-fold brochure mentioned above.

 This matter is still under investigation and, as such, I choose to refrain from making any conclusions, at this point.

Attachment: as stated